Debtors Anonymous Speakers

Hi I’m Alan A, I’m a compulsive debtor…(Applause) 

And let me just start by saying that my anniversary is July 14th, 1990, so 21 years of solvency today. I’m sitting up here thinking I don’t wanna do 21 years. In 20 minutes, that’s. But I’ll try to keep it short. I want to start by talking about where I am now actually. Because where I am now is in a very different place than when I came into the program. But I I’ve I’ve had a job. There’s a near the microphone. Thank you. Oh. That better. OK, even closer, like right on the mic. Somebody gonna catch a cold from big. I’ve had I’ve had a job for 19 years, almost 19 years would be 19 years. In February 3rd, a job that I got through this program that greatly increased my income, and in the beginning of December I walked into my boss’s office and I turned in my resignation and I’ve decided to become self-employed. Which I started in January and I used to occasionally go to the meetings at 12 W 12th St, the self-employed meeting and and to me it was like sitting among aliens. I never could quite understand the desire to be self-employed to start with. Why would you want a salary, you know? The idea of being in a position now where I have to generate my own income, which is like the scariest thing in the world for me, is what I’m doing now. But the question that that kept coming back to me, that became really clear the more I looked at it was why am I not self-employed? Because my my income has become much more complex than just the salary. I started earning royalties back in 2006 and those royalties have greatly increased my income and and are enough to do to survive off of and to thrive off of and and to work more on my own and be independent from the company I’ve been working with. So it became really clear that this is, this is the next step for me and this is what I needed to do and this is tremendous change for me. But at the same time, I was just sharing in a meeting that I was packing up my boxes, packing the stuff from my office and and the end of December and you know, I emailed everybody to give him my new e-mail address and I. Took all the things off the wall and put them in boxes and I closed up my laptop which belonged to the company and I put it in the drawer, left them I know where to find it. And then I took the two speakers for the laptop that I used company money for and bought years ago. I took them, put them in a box to take home. And it took just as a little. There’s a little gap, about 15 minutes, where all of a sudden I suddenly stopped and I said, wait a minute, I’m stealing the speakers. 21 years of solvency and I’m still stealing speakers. It was amazing. But they the miracle, of course, is that I was able to stop myself and look at it and say, whoa, what the hell is going on here? You know, isn’t that weird? And that’s the miracle of the program. And the disease doesn’t go away. The disease is still there. The the desire that I have to have to get something for nothing is. It’s a lifelong desire. I still love a free lunch. I still have a hard time leaving a hotel room without that urge to take the shampoo. You know, all of those things are just a very, very strong part of of how I approach survival in my life. And thanks to this program, I’m able to walk out of the hotel room without the shampoo. I’m able to walk out of the office without the stamp speakers. And one of the things I had to set for myself was to go by. New speakers, you know that I needed to do that because because I can afford it. I I have. I have a spending plan. I can buy my own speakers. I don’t have to steal them, you know, to have speakers.

As I said, it came into this program 21 years ago in 1990 at Saint Mary’s. I think it was Saint Mary’s Church. Yeah. And, and I was very fortunate that that I’m somebody who came into the program at a bottom, complete bottom. I was making $23,000 a year and I had a I had a debt of 35,000. Once a year and and that that picture just in itself to me, spells and sanity. How can you possibly pay back $35,000 if you’re making 23,000 to raise a family of three? Not even for just me, but three people. And it just that was not working. And so I I had a pressure meeting fairly early because I was two months behind on the rent and so there was a very serious possibility to get kicked out on the street with an infant at home. And so I pushed for a pressure meeting early on. And one of the earliest things that they said to me is they, they, you know, we looked. We developed a spending plan. They looked at expenses, they looked at the money coming in, money going out and basically said you need to make more income. Now the thing that’s interesting to me when I stop and I think about that is from the perspective of many in DNA today that would be addressing under earning. You’re an intern, or you need to make more money so that you don’t debt. But that’s not really what they told me. They didn’t say make more money so that you know that. What they told me was don’t debt. And while you’re at it, make more money so that you can increase your expenses. Was my expenses were so low that it was it was difficult just to go to a movie if I wanted to to eat out if I wanted to to do any of the simple things to give gifts was was impossible unless I did it and and and So what I had to do is I had to stop at it and then I had to deal with the deprivation in some way and the idea was to make more income so that. It deprived myself less, because the more it deprived myself, the more likely I would dead again. And that was the basic premise behind them. So I could have, I could have dealt with my under earning from the perspective of not under earning and therefore I want that because I’m making more money and that’s that. You know, I wanted something for nothing. It was it wasn’t just that that I had today was because I I chose to death. I preferred the debt. Because when I did it, I was using somebody else’s money instead of mine. And I like that. I like that a lot. It it took the edge off of of of of the money I was making. There was, it was, it was like the safety safety valve from the that that if I used somebody else’s $1000 to buy things, I didn’t have to use my own $1000 to buy things. And I had great appeal to me. And I have to confess that, you know, the truth is that when I did it, I I never really thought I would pay it back. I was through the lottery, would pay it back. Yeah, there always be some way to pay back. Maybe, maybe I’d inherit some money. Yeah. But but it was never me paying it back on the regular basis. There was always getting something for nothing and and this is just something that, you know that that carried for years and and and and so clear to me as a matter of fact, I oftentimes like to put it as, as, as as a compulsive indebtedness. So I got the compulsion for me is never you think it’s always been hard for me to relate to the the concept that compulsive debting is I never imagined myself like like a drunk with a bottle of of Scotch that that I would take that card and go, oh, I’ve got to use this card, I’ve got to use this card. It was never that kind of compulsion, but rather it was it was that I always was more comfortable. Being indebted to somebody else, rather than taking care of myself to get money from my parents, for example, was much more appealing than having to make my own money to to borrow from a credit card was much more appealing. To use their money was much more appealing. I remember years ago I told the story before that there was an article in Mother Jones magazine about. The writer who had used credit cards up and down the California coast and and managed at the end of it to not have to pay any of it back. And I remember thinking, I want that that’s for me and that that that’s the way I viewed life. Life was that you tried to get away with something and tried to get something for nothing. And I and I can’t think of a job that I’ve ever had where I didn’t try to steal things from that. Employer. You know, there was always something that I would want to take, and again it was that urge to get something for nothing.

So one of the first things that happened with me in the program is I had to, I had to start thinking of ways to increase my income again to take that, that, that, that edge off. And and I started doing some little odd jobs. I started tutoring students in English. I started doing reviews of of proposals that people would send into a publishing company. And several of the things that I started doing and and they started to push out my income a little bit and took some of that edge off. At the same time, I was dealing with creditors and I did a debt moratorium. And debt moratorium to me was absolutely crucial for me. Again, if you’re making $23,000 and you’re $35,000 in debt, something has to give. Something has to give. And as you know in this program when we look at spending plans, the creditors are at the bottom of the list. And there’s a reason for that because we take care of ourselves first and then we take care of our creditors. And a lot of confusion I oftentimes see over the years is, is that you know, somehow DA, our goal is to pay back our debts and that’s not our goal. You can look at all the literature, and it doesn’t say anywhere in our literature. Then do what you can to pay back all your debts. What it says is don’t incur new unsecured debt one day at a time, starting today. And and that’s the commitment and and it’s no matter what and that and that’s the hard part that no matter what. So even though I was making $23,000 a year, I had to stop dating. And that meant dealing with a lot of pain, a lot of pain, a lot of pain came up around that. Then a lot of deprivation and then having to face that, that I was allowing myself to live in that kind of deprivation. And and yet at the same time not getting. And it made calling up each of my creditors and saying I can’t pay you anything now. You know, making $23,000 a year, I cannot pay you right now. But I I’m like a, like a, like a a repeated recording. I would keep saying to them, I take full responsibility for this debt. I have every intention of paying him back. But today I cannot pay you anything. And I’ll contact you again in three months and I’ll let you know if my situation has changed. And then I have to call them again in three months and did the same thing and I put it in writing with the with the certified return receipt on it and kept the record of that. And eventually after a year and a half, I was able to start paying back my creditors on my terms, not on their terms. They weren’t happy with what I paid them back. I I would pay them one dollar, $5, whatever I could. But it was according to what my pressure meeting came up with. They would say, OK, your total debt repayment is $50 for this month. So you divide it up evenly among your creditors, you know, according to how much you owe each one. And that went on for years and years. And I finally paid off my my last debt, which was the student loan. I paid it off and at 13 years. Took 13 years to pay it off. Now that of course if it’s irrelevant because the fact that I paid it back, it didn’t pay it back is irrelevant. But that’s what I would like applause for is that I didn’t get for those 13 years that that’s, that’s, that’s. Because that’s what matters. That’s what matters is the not dealing. What it does is it gets you your feet on the ground and you suddenly have this real, authentic vision of what living without debt is like. That’s why we call it solvency, at least those of us who still call it solvency. And that’s another unfortunate thing that we’ve lost that word. Living solely one day at a time doesn’t mean living without debt. It means living as if yourself and one day at a time. What does it feel like to be debt free today? And if it means doing it, that moratorium, then that’s what you do in order to feel that, but not getting one day at a time. And for me, the program is just amazing and it’s just amazing the things that happened to me.

I made $23,000 a year. At that time I the highest I imagine myself making was 35,000. I had this this clear debt seal that seal steered clear ceiling on how much I can make that if I made $35,000. And I’ve been pretty good shape, which is absurd. I’m imagine a family of three in New York City, $35,000. That’s how crazy I was. And and even though that was 20 years ago, it still doesn’t make any difference. And what ended up happening is that one of those jobs that the ways that I figured out to make extra income ended up leading to the job that I had for the last 19 years and that was the publishing company that I was doing. Doing reviews for it. And they like the reviews I did. They approached me and said would you like a job? And and they ended up offering me, well, they said they were going to offer me 50,000 when I had the interview and then when they actually offered the job, they offered me 45,000. Now being the terrified debtor that I was, I was almost ready to just accept that and say, Oh well. They took 5000 off. You know, that’s what I deserve. But I spoke to my sponsor that and he says, well, how much do you want to make? And he tried to get me to ask for 55, but I didn’t have the guts. So I asked for 50 and they said yes and I got the 50. And and that that very slow change of mentality is something that you know took time, the ability to ask for what I wanted. You know, to to, to to think through what you know what what is, what is the value of what I do and how much should I be asking for? It was was something that took time. I remember a couple of years later getting to a point where I was ready to ask for a raise because I started talking to other publishing companies and it became really clear that that I had something of value that they wanted and and that I could make more money doing it. But. I decided I didn’t really want to change companies, so I came to this point overtime where it became clear I needed to ask for a raise and it took me 3 months of talking to my sponsor before I had the guts to ask for it. That’s how painful it was and when it when the time finally came to do it, I had to call my sponsor. I book it and he told me literally to take baby steps into my boss’s office. And to ask for that raise, no matter how I felt last Friday, because I was terrified that I would humiliate myself, that I get shaky voice and, and to me, humiliation is like the biggest thing that gets in my way of doing anything. And he said do it anyway. And so I trusted him. I just, you know, I over the years, I’ve trusted the actions that my pressure people give me and my sponsor gives me And just do them anyway. And I remember walking into her office like this. And I I took the baby steps and washed my feet and I went in and and actually got shaky voice, at least at least from my perception I was shaky voice. And I asked for it anyway and she said OK. And and it’s it’s been amazing if I found that you know much easier to get those things than than I ever imagined it would be. Because there’s so many issues that I carry with me, so much baggage I carry that gets in my way and the bottom line is the ability to to take actions anyway. No matter how I feel to take actions anyway. And the way to get there is just by moving forward. You know that that that’s why we continue to have pressure meetings because pressure meetings help us to keep moving forward. It’s like an incredible tool that keeps us, keeps us going that way instead of getting, instead of stagnating and stopping. I’m, I’m a, I’m a great procrastinator. I’m going, I I procrastinate like nobody. And and and. The only way I get through that is by is by consciously working the program. You know, working the program and going to pressure meetings and working and taking actions and doing it. No matter how I feel about it, even if I feel crappy about it or afraid to do it anyway. And all kinds of things happening. I bought a house with the help of this program. Thank you. I never thought that was possible. I thought that my credit rating would be so shot after all the crap that happened with my creditors. And by the way, I forgot to mention, I went to court three times. I I had my wages garnished at one point, I had my bank account frozen another point. Those are very painful and scary things to go through. And what I could have done is said, well, that’s too painful. I’m not going to do that. I’ll throw some more money at my creditors. But what I learned from the program is that you don’t get no matter what. So that means that even though you go into court, you don’t debt and you show up in court, you take the action and show up. And the first time I showed up in court was actually amazing. It was in Queens and it was the first thing in the morning. And I was the first person to come into the courtroom and there’s nobody in the room and they and the only thing on the wall. Was it was. It was the words in God we trust. And I mean to me, I’ve always been very frightened by that because I always seemed very feisty, sort of right wing kind of thing. We’re seeing those words at that moment a whole different meaning and and and that’s what I did. I just trusted and and I remember I ended up talking to A to a it was a like an arbitrator, a pre pretrial arbitrator who who just kind of said can you do $40 a month and I thought about it and $40 a month was more than I had been paying up until that time. And I said, well, OK, I’ll do that. And my income happened to go up about the same time that I was able to do $40 a month. And every time one of these things happened, I got whatever I needed to be able to do it. And debate will survive. Same thing with buying a house. I got, you know, getting a promotion right before I bought the house. But the amazing thing is I remember talking to A to a mortgage broker. And I decided to be rigorously honest. And when I spoke to him, I said I just want you to know I defaulted on my student loans back in 1990 and I I think my credit rating is not going to be that great. He says, oh, let me check. He disappears and comes back. He says you have an excellent credit rating. and i think it was because i was in contact with my creditors for all those years and i showed up and i and i i acted responsibly and regularly with them and eventually my credit rating cleaned up and i was able to buy house you know so so all the all the fears about what if this happens what if that we’re getting 

And regularly with them. And eventually my credit rating cleaned up and I was able to buy a house, you know, so, so all the all the fears about what if this happens, what if that happens? What if I get a bad credit rating? What if this happens what and all of those things that that that I needed to set aside and say I’m willing to debt, not debt, one day at a time, no matter what. And and that that’s the bottom line. The other thing I mentioned too is I’ve benefited tremendously in this program through visions and and yet visions are the smallest part of my program. The smallest part, my primary purpose in this program is to not that one day at a time visions of the extra. That’s the extra that I get out of the program. And one of my visions, first of all, getting that job, this job to begin with, it surprised me because I had actually written down kind of a vision about what I wanted to do my life, and it surprised me how how well the job actually matched a lot of the things I’ve written down. But years later, I was in my boss’s office one day for review and she said, what do you see yourself doing in five years? And I said, you know, you want the honest truth. And she said, yeah. And I said, well, I see myself being the author of a blockbuster English as a foreign language course. And that kind of publishing that we did was English in English as a second language and. Which is really isn’t that interesting. How can we make that happen? I said I don’t know. So she thought of that. She couldn’t think of any way to do it either, so it kind of dropped it. But I was interested in that. She encouraged me that. I found that interesting. But four years later, an opportunity came up and that’s what I ended up doing and ended up writing this course. The course brought in last year brought in $14 million for the company. So it’s tremendous, you know, it’s tremendously successful as a course and and we did a second edition of it last year and I I negotiated a double doubling of my royalty for the second edition and that’s that’s what I’m going to be living off of at the beginning of being self-employed and I’m about to be contracted with another publishing company to work on another course. So you know, visions that can be very, very powerful. But again the the main thing you get of the vision is what you get a pressure meetings which is moving forward and taking actions. But the bottom line, the bottom line and I’ll say it again is not debting one day at a time no matter what. Thank you. Thank you. (Applause)